I would like to share an interview-style meme with you all, asking for you to share as well you impressions of before and after as an expat in the Netherlands or wherever you are or have been an expat in your life. Below I've created a series of questions, which I have filled in with my own answers, but I invite you to copy the questions and share your answers on your own blog. I would love if you share with me in the comments here after this blog post if you also have chosen to do so on your blog because I'd love to read your responses. If you don't live in the Netherlands but are living abroad, you are more than welcome to also do this meme. Just change the Netherlands to your host country's name. And I must note to everyone: on any of these questions, if you don't have an idea of what to say in response or don't wish to answer, just simply skip the question.
Before:
- Before you knew you'd be coming to the Netherlands, for whatever reason you originally came to the Netherlands, truthfully how much did you know about the country? Very early in my childhood in America, I made a friend who would bring dropjes to school. Her strange candies caused me to become curious about the Netherlands, so I searched to see where it was located on a map. There were other ways to learn about the Netherlands too through books, and I knew about Amsterdam, but I had no idea The Hague [Den Haag] was a part of the Netherlands until at least a decade later while watching the international news.
- Did you learn about the Netherlands in school when you were growing up? Not that I am aware of, outside of what I learned due to my childhood friend. Maybe I was vaguely taught by teachers and I definitely learned some through books, but most likely only about Amsterdam being the capital city of the Netherlands...
Insego - Expats & Internationally-Minded People.
37 comments:
Great post! I'm going to do this next week on my blog.
@ Spotted Sparrow: Thank you! I look forward to reading yours :-)
Hi there ! I will be answering these questions in my blog next week. I am at work now and I will be travelling in the evening for a weekend away. Surely I will be visiting all the blogs of expats with their answers !!
@ Anita: Wonderful! I look forward to your answers, but first have a safe trip & enjoy your weekend ;-)
How interesting to read your answers! Funny how similar our experiences or impressions are on some points and how different on others...
Since I don't have much time right now, can I answer one question at a time?
Cheers!
Eber M.
I love these memes, and I've been wanting to do one on my blog for a while now. I can't wait to answer these questions over the weekend! Thank you also for mentioning me in your post :)
@ Eber M.: I would love to read your answers, so absolutely take your time if you must & send me one at a time ;-)
@ Life Abroad: You're welcome & I look forward to your version of the meme :-)
Thank you both for your comments!
Thanks Isabelle!
Before you knew you'd be coming to the Netherlands, for whatever reason you originally came to the Netherlands, truthfully how much did you know about the country?Well, coming from a country made and built by immigrants myself (a bit like the US too in that aspect) I also met a Dutch family back in Argentina when I was a child.
They owned a small farm near my grandparents' ranch and they came every day to the "big house" to sell their produce, mainly milk.
I think it was my first contact with a foreign language, now that I think of it :)
I remember how my family would comment on certain contraptions or ways of doing things that they (my family) found different or strange or clever.
Later as I grew up, I didn't really have any contact at all with any Dutch people that I can remember and what I knew about the country came from tv or reading material.
Did you learn about the Netherlands in school when you were growing up?Well, definitely. In 6th(10 years old) or 7th (11 years old) grade in primary school, at least we could locate all European countries on a map and name their capitals.
In secondary school we actually studied History and Geography of the world, for 5 years, and this is the normal curricula for schools all over Argentina - compulsory subjects.
When we did Europe for Geography, I had to present The Netherlands so I did a lot of reading about the big rivers delta,the delta works, main cities, etc. Little did I know how useful this would be later in my life!
Also in History, The Netherlands, or Flanders, or The Lowlands kept popping up over and over again. When I took Philosophy in the 4th year we saw Erasmus, for example... so yes, definitely I learnt a lot about The Netherlands when I was growing up.
Stay tuned for the rest of my answers :)
@ Eber M.: Thank you for sharing this! You were exposed a lot to the Netherlands while growing up personally as well.
Very interesting to hear how it was focused on in Argentina too! Interesting the differences in education! I remember in elementary school, we focused heavily in the 5th grade on the U.S., & the 6th grade on Canada, Mexico, Central & South America. I still remember the map I made of the South American continent like it was yesterday! The current news back then always focused on politics & is also evident in movies in the early 80s how much the U.S. focused on the Cold War/USSR & peace between us. Europe we focused on in high school in World Geography and Current Events, but otherwise with US History do I recall ever learning anything extra about Europe, Africa, Asia & Australia. All depending on the teacher and the current world events, but otherwise I learned more about geography & history on my own. May be different for others in suburban schools in America in the early 80s...
I loved reading all your answers and I find that you're really optimistic about living abroad. At least, it seems like you took it fairly well, which is fabulous!
Now, I've got a question: What prompted you to start blogging about your new home? I mean, what was your inspiration? I'd love to hear that! ;)
I don't want to be negative towards my own country, but I seriously question the quality of our education growing up.
I had a coach for geography in high school- outside of the US I can find NOTHING on a map! And I only know which state is this and the capitols of them because I've actually been there when travelling!! It's terrible- I not only know little about other nations but I just have no concept of anything else, the culture, language etc. I'm so embarrassed because it wasn't until I was well out of high school and in college that I even realized that people in Brazil speak Portugeuse and not Spanish..
And if my family didn't have a love for history... and mine is world history at that- I would have learned little at school. Which is sad because I always took advanced classes.
As it stands, my oldest nieces are teenagers and still have no idea who Charlemagne was, much less what the Bill of Rights is.
It makes me sad. :-(
Thank my lucky stars that I am going to move and educate myself on the world...
I think that in the US, it's not that we hate other cultures- they just aren't in our everyday sphere of thought. In many ways, we are just too caught up in ourselves...
Sorry for ranting Isabella... good luck on Dutch!
@ Bchai: Thank you for commenting too on this! You know, I am not quite sure how I made it out of that culture shock per se, but I can say it does help to not get swallowed-up in anything which can keep you from growing. Forcing myself to get out & not grow a shell was an important piece of the puzzle. The feeling I might be helping others who seek help also helps, but I don't know how to put that in words. I guess it's along the same lines for why I decided to start this blog. I put up here what I feel would be something I'd personally search for. It helps. You don't arrive in the Netherlands with a welcome packet. For most, you have to learn to tread the waters on your own.
@ Bethy{aka}lilsis: Thank you for sharing this! I am sorry you had this lack as well. I was a huge sponge & borderline nerd in school [& had my own Encyclopedia Britannica set in my bedroom] & absorbed as much while learning as possible, but I do recall how sometimes very unentertaining education could be. We weren't dummies, but we did have limited education in some areas. And even relating to anyone such as Napoleon, I only remember learning about Waterloo and the Louisiana Purchase. I learned much more on my own from reading, watching television and asking my parents/grandparents. I strongly believe some of it rests on the shoulders of the parents as well, depending on the discipline & emphasis. On top of it, for whatever reasons, public schooling lacks to some in particular areas & the teachers are horribly underpaid and tools are not always updated well. My U.S. History book in high school junior year showed the last president was Jimmy Carter... Classrooms can be too crowded & education is not always exciting. I remember hands-on education & field trips were exciting, or when we had a professional come in to discuss their profession, etc. I think if I had a child in America, in the public school systems, I'd be heavily involved behind the scenes for the benefit of my child's education.
I want to note something I just learned about: In the Netherlands, your child doesn't have to go to the school in the neighborhood. Your child can go to a school across town, if this is what you feel would be better. Interesting!
Happy Saturday...perfect for coffee and catching up. I'll have a run at your meme tomorrow... interesting questions to reflect on.
Off to Carrefour for some much-deferred shoppng (or 'Car-foor' as my friends keep correcting me).
@ Dave: Thank you! I look forward to it. Have a great Saturday!
I'll go on with the assignment :)
Do you have family who is Dutch or Dutch heritage?No, I don't. My four grandparents were expats themselves - three of them Spanish (Catalonian and Basque) and one of them was Italian. They emigrated to Argentina in the first half of the 20th century.
Were you aware the language the Dutch spoke was Dutch and not German or any other language?Yes, I was. But then I was interested in languages from an early age, so I suppose that helped?
During our visits to Argentina with my Dutch husband every year, we meet sometimes people who think that the Dutch speak German. My husband doesn't always find this very amusing :)
Tot de volgende aflevering! :)
Great meme! I posted my answers on my blog
www.moppieke.wordpress.com
@ Theresa: Cool! Thanks for doing this too, Theresa! I'll come over to check it out :-)
@ Eber M.: Great! More answers :-) So you probably did know the Dutch spoke Dutch due to your earlier knowledge, but I have a feeling you would've known it in any case with even your interest in language alone.
My husband has told me stories too of some during his travels around the world who thought the Netherlands was a region of Germany, or they thought the Dutch spoke natively German or Danish. Here's something: if someone is telling you they've visited Holland & they seem unconvincing, ask them if they've seen or visited the 'Dutch Mountains' ;-)
Isabelle, haven't you yet been to the Dutch mountains? I have, you get dizzy up there, oxygen is scarce at such high alitude :)
Every time I show pictures of the hills near my hometown of Córdoba (Argentina), people here, or even my husband, though now he knows better, refer to them as "mountains" and I find that kind of cute :)
I just posted it on my blog, it was super-fun to do, thanks again for posting this :)
@ Life Abroad: Great! I am on my way over now to read it! Thanks for doing this :-)
@ Eber M.: Very cute! We've also been to the so-called "Dutch Mountains." My husband played for me once a song called the "Dutch Mountains" & explained to me. Really a good laugh ;-) Anyone else curious, I found the song, by the Nits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YxNx46yTM
Hi everyone !
It's been fun reading all these comments and the answers to the meme. Mine is ready. Phew ! It took me time. Hey, "Have you visited the Dutch mountains?" is a brilliant things to ask ! By the way, has anyone ever wondered why so many Dutch have "mountains' (Langebergen, Hogebergen, Zevenbergen) in their names ?
hummmm ...
Had you ever lived outside of your home country for longer than one month prior to living in the Netherlands?Yes I had. I lived in the UK for study and for work, though not for very long periods of time(twice for 6 months, once for just 3) and also in Mexico for 3 months when I was a teenager, though I stayed with family there.
Had you learned to speak any other language than your own, even if only partially so, before coming to the Netherlands?Yes, English and Italian. I started studying English when I was 5 and I did it parallel to school all through primary and secondary levels. Then I went on to study English at university level as well, so basically, I never stopped! :)
I studied Italian for a couple of years as well because my family is of Italian origin.
When you learned you'd be coming to the Netherlands, did you feel it was important to learn Dutch?Yes. I knew I would not have problems communicating in English but yes, Dutch is the official language so I wanted to learn it too.
Unlike you, I didn't study it before coming to The Netherlands. I knew it was a part of the "inburgeringstraject" so I thought I'd wait until I had to start my programme. I wasn't anxious or worried about it at all!
In the months before starting my "traject" I picked up things of course, but I didn't do it methodically, nor made notes, etc.
There's more to come! :)
@ Anita: Thanks so much for doing it too! Great answers! And great question about the 'mountain/berg' in names/cities here. I've never thought about that. It's very true! Where did they get the idea, I wonder? :-)
@ Eber M.: It's great reading your answers! Thanks for continuing to post them up! It's been a lot of fun reading :-)
Cool idea, will do it this week.
will go up on http://notourist.wordpress.com
CanalRat
@ canalrat: I would love it if you did it too! I look forward to reading your answers! :-)
Hi Isabella - I enjoyed this post and decided to do it on my blog also.
Okay, my answers are posted at my blog: I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else writes...
@ Sandy Shirley: Thank you for commenting on this! I will come to your blog & take a look ;-)
@ Dave: Thank you too! I will be over to look at your blog as well :-)
Not an expat- but grew up with one foot in Holland ,the Hague in fact, so interesting to read of your experiences :)
@ Starrybluesky: Thank you for your comment on this :-) I peeked at your blog & see you are currently in Amsterdam! Beautiful photos you have on your blog! I love the T-Z Polaroid-effect. Gorgeous! I've added your blog to my favorites :-)
Before you knew you'd be coming to the Netherlands, for whatever reason you originally came to the Netherlands, truthfully how much did you know about the country?
Less than what I thought I knew. Most o my knowledge was of Geography and my grandparents utopian form of Friesland.
Did you learn about the Netherlands in school when you were growing up?
Yes,I grew up in one of the greatest concentrations of Dutch/Frisian people in America.
Do you have family who is Dutch or Dutch heritage?
My last name is Bontekoe... I'll let you guess :)
Actually my grandparents always made sure I knew I wasn't Dutch. I'm Frisian.
Were you aware the language the Dutch spoke was Dutch and not German or any other language?
very, very little. Knew more Frisian than Dutch. But now can converse in Dutch but still can only listen in Frisian.
Had you ever lived outside of your home country for longer than one month prior to living in the Netherlands?
Yes. Sweden, Uganda and did my time in Peace Corps in Kyrgyzstan.
Had you learned to speak any other language than your own, even if only partially so, before coming to the Netherlands?
Russian. Which was good because it made me more confident in my ability to learn Dutch.
When you learned you'd be coming to the Netherlands, did you feel it was important to learn Dutch?
For sure. Learnign Dutch was actually 50% of my motivation for getting a job in the Netherlands. 50% meeting family I had never known and learning about my heritage.
Did anyone prepare you with information of any type before you came to live in the Netherlands, did you attempt to find information on your own, or did you come to the Netherlands without preparing?
I just got contact info for family in Friesland and some copies of old love letters between my great grandparentsand I bought Rosetta Stone.
How did your friends and family react when they learned you'd be moving to the Netherlands?
How many jokes are there about Smoking pot?
My family was really excited because I was going to take a job in Belize and decided to go to the NEtherlands instead. So, it was a good chance for my parents to finally go abroad.
What did you think would be your biggest challenge living in a foreign country? Or did you feel you would face any big challenges?
My biggest challege was with living ina small village and being a nanny for the richest/most gossiped about family in town.
And after:
Upon arriving, can you remember the overall impression you had in the first 48 hours?
It's so quaint. So tiny and close. My viallge has a butcher and a baker...probably a candlestick maker. The drive from Schiohol out to my place was so exciting. Driving by the concrete elephants always gets my heart going because it reminds me of my first excitement for the NEtherlands. And it was nice to come to the land fo my ancestors.
Tell me about your bicycle, if you have one. Is it borrowed/rented or do you own it? And how often do you use it weekly? Have you ever had your bike stolen?
I used my bike alot. I ahd a car too and it rained alot so I did drive a lot too. I liked biking out to Lemmer in to visit my friends. I would also bike to stavoren alot onmy saturdays. I fell in love with biking so much that I biked from Helsinki to Berlin for my vacation. Got a lot of props from the Frisians for that.
Name three of your favorite things about the Dutch culture which first come to mind:
Having a bar right in the sportzal. I wish we had them built right in American Bars. I would play Korfbal and than go to the bar or biertjes after.
The Dutch National Team. LOVE LOVE LOVE THEM! I will marry Van der Dar some day :) Hup Holland Hup!
It's nice to get a beer break in the middle of your movie. My first movie I saw I freaked out and was demanding my money back than I realized all the Dutch people were calm so I sat down and waited it out.
Of the things you never knew before coming here, what have you learned about the Netherlands?
Dutch Beer and food not so good. But Belgium food is soooo good and Belgium beer is insanely good. So, basically I learned that the Netherlands needs to claim Belgium as part of the country.
Culture shock. Does this ring a bell? [Not sure what culture shock is? Click here to learn more.]
Not much. After Uganda and Kyrgyzstan not a lot shocks me. I was actually suprised out how openly racist many people were...especially since I thought the utch were suppose to be the all excepting type.
How far have you come with learning Dutch?
I do okay. I can chit chat. My accent is pretty funky. Everyone always giggles and tells me I sound just like Maxima. There were a lot of times I would be talking to someone who ahd never met me before and didn't know that I wasn't Dutch and about 5 minutes into the convo as my jaw started to hurt from making odd noises and my accent became thicker and thicker people would have to stop me and ask me where I was from. PLus on top of my weird American Accent I speak Dutch with the harsh Frisian accent layered over my Dutch. I hope to move back next year to city in the west or in the south to maybe soften up my Dutch.
What was/is your overall impression of the inburgering [integration] program?
I didn't really do any of that.
Has your view on politics or world issues changed from how you previously viewed things before living in the Netherlands?
Not too much. Can kind of see why people don't get rid of their Monarchs-they are fun to gossip about. And I really was disappointed in the amount of Racism I saw in the NEtherlands.
Coffeeshops and smartshops. What is your opinion? Have you ever visited a coffeeshop or smartshop? I don't even know what a smartshop is. I went in a coffeeshop once with some Peace Corps buddies who were visiting. I don't do drugs so it's not really an interest to me. I actually think it brings down the integrity of a great nation.
Since living here, have you learned anything new about yourself? Or perhaps have you learned anything else new? I learned Korfbal. I learned to be a more independent person who is not so needy of having lots of friends to validate myself. I learned a lot about my families history. I learned that I enjoy bicycling. And I want to train and cyclein the elfsteden some day!
@ Carol/K-Roll/C-Bone: Thank you so much for doing this! You are right about the bar in a sport club! I forgot all about this! I've been to a few who don't, but I've also been to a few who do. I've played squash a few times with old expat friends in the evenings & had a biertje afterwards in the club bar. And props to you for bicycling such a huge distance! And you probably knew what Piet Paulusma was saying at the end of his weerbericht on SBS 6 long before I could figure out he was even saying, "Oat Moarn!" ;-)
I got around to posting my answers on my blog. You can see them here. :)
@ KellyinNL: Fantastic! I'll be right over to check it out. Thanks for doing this :-)
I saw this post of yours on Insego, and was inspired to write my own: http://inburgeringadventure.blogspot.com/2011/03/before-and-after-expat-meme.html
What a great idea, thank you!
@ MissNeriss: Thank you very much for your comment on this & for making your own version! So sorry it took me some time to respond to this comment. I just finally am back around to blogging again. Hope all is going well for you!
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